I'd like to note that you said *ADHERENTS* of Islam.
I wish there was more precise language for this. I mean people who are nominally Muslim (who show up as Muslim on demographic surveys or other first-glance measures).
Perhaps it is my ignorance of where the culture spread out to
Yeah, that.
Although I find celebrating religious holidays when you don't believe in it to be rather silly.
I agree, but I can think of some reasons to do it anyways. Personally, I enjoy spending time with extended family, and I can appreciate the aesthetic and historical value of rituals that don't (in my view) really make metaphysical sense.
You really don't find them celebrating Palm Sunday or participating in Ash Wednesday, though.
Are you using circular logic here? When you see someone participating in one of those holidays, do you assume they're a gnostic theist with no further evidence?
At this point, it's all "these are things I remember experts saying, but I can't remember who they are"
Yeah, I'm glad you understand that's not really persuasive.
If we're going with guesswork, let me front a few hypotheses:
(Note that much of this is comparing Judaism with Christianity, my experience with other religions is more limited.)
1. Muslim and Christian doctrine holds that non-believers go to hell (I'm generalizing, I know some Christian sects disagree with that, and expect some Muslim sects do as well (e.g. the Sufi)). Jewish doctrine doesn't hold that. That probably decreases the pressure on non-secular Jews to bring more secular Jews back into the fold. The fact that Jews don't proselytize in general probably feeds into that.
2. Related to the above: If you believe non-believers will meet a terrible fate, you're more likely to think they're bad people (avoids cognitive dissonance). At least, my impression is that anti-atheist sentiment is stronger among Christians than Jews (though there are a variety of reasons why my perception could be skewed).
3. Jews are a global minority (about 14 million Jews compared to 1.5 billion Muslims and 2.2 billion Christians). That means a stronger desire to keep more people in the group, relative to the desire to enforce religious norms.
4. Zionism probably has a related effect. Whether Jews identify as Jews probably has far more impact on the sustainability of a Jewish state than whether those Jews believe in God or not.
5. Judaism puts a great deal of focus on scholarship. Which in countries like the United States means theres a lot of interaction between Jews and politically-liberal academic institutions.
no subject
I wish there was more precise language for this. I mean people who are nominally Muslim (who show up as Muslim on demographic surveys or other first-glance measures).
Perhaps it is my ignorance of where the culture spread out to
Yeah, that.
Although I find celebrating religious holidays when you don't believe in it to be rather silly.
I agree, but I can think of some reasons to do it anyways. Personally, I enjoy spending time with extended family, and I can appreciate the aesthetic and historical value of rituals that don't (in my view) really make metaphysical sense.
You really don't find them celebrating Palm Sunday or participating in Ash Wednesday, though.
Are you using circular logic here? When you see someone participating in one of those holidays, do you assume they're a gnostic theist with no further evidence?
At this point, it's all "these are things I remember experts saying, but I can't remember who they are"
Yeah, I'm glad you understand that's not really persuasive.
If we're going with guesswork, let me front a few hypotheses:
(Note that much of this is comparing Judaism with Christianity, my experience with other religions is more limited.)
1. Muslim and Christian doctrine holds that non-believers go to hell (I'm generalizing, I know some Christian sects disagree with that, and expect some Muslim sects do as well (e.g. the Sufi)). Jewish doctrine doesn't hold that. That probably decreases the pressure on non-secular Jews to bring more secular Jews back into the fold. The fact that Jews don't proselytize in general probably feeds into that.
2. Related to the above: If you believe non-believers will meet a terrible fate, you're more likely to think they're bad people (avoids cognitive dissonance). At least, my impression is that anti-atheist sentiment is stronger among Christians than Jews (though there are a variety of reasons why my perception could be skewed).
3. Jews are a global minority (about 14 million Jews compared to 1.5 billion Muslims and 2.2 billion Christians). That means a stronger desire to keep more people in the group, relative to the desire to enforce religious norms.
4. Zionism probably has a related effect. Whether Jews identify as Jews probably has far more impact on the sustainability of a Jewish state than whether those Jews believe in God or not.
5. Judaism puts a great deal of focus on scholarship. Which in countries like the United States means theres a lot of interaction between Jews and politically-liberal academic institutions.